The Home of Steven Barnes
Author, Teacher, Screenwriter


Thursday, July 23, 2009

Birthers?

Tananarive got a prescription for migraines, so Blue Shield wants to put her on the most expensive plan they have. Heaven help us if they saw this as a "pre-existing condition." I consider this price gouging and fixing. If the insurance companies are spending 1.5 million a day in lobbying, that's obviously not money invested in providing services to their clients. This suggests a gigantic amount of profit that can be used to muddy the waters. There are legitimate reasons to oppose socialized health care (especially if you are one of the fortunate ones to either be able to pay for the best, or work for an organization that provides top-level care). I think that the same level of care (for the top 5%) will end up costing a little more. But all of the fear that the system will somehow collapse strikes me as pure hysteria.

##

The public option clearly panics many people--literally, they don't want people to have the CHOICE, which is bizarre to me. Among the questions I have are:

1) People ask how we'll pay for this. But...aren't we paying twice as much for our health care as Canada (per capita) for lesser results? Even if we say that the results are "comparable" that "twice as much per capita" remains. So my question is: if everyone who wanted a public option switched their insurance investment to the public option, how much money would that be? If the people who CURRENTLY say that they want this put their money behind it, how much would that be? Even considering that we want to cover the poor and elderly who might not be able to pay their own way...wouldn't that be a serious chunk of the change.

##

Let's remove direct self-interest from this debate. I figure there are only two groups of people who can be trusted to speak more from "the good of the country" than naked self interest. These two groups are:

1) People who can afford health care, or currently have health care, but believe in the Public option.

2) People who do NOT have health care, but are AGAINST a public option.

I would love to hear from ONLY members of these two groups, explaining their positions.

Wow. The man is awesome.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html?page=-1
##

The arrest of Henry Louis Gates seems to be one of those polarizing events that points out blindness on both sides. I've yet to see a precise chronology of what exactly happened, or if Gates actually offered the police officer his driver's license. I know he offered a university ID card, but am not at all sure that the officer was obliged to accept it. My sense is that Gates was offended, and allowed that offense to interfere with the quality of communication. The officer, on the other hand, probably allowed his own sense of power gradients to interfere in HIS ability to communicate. Anyone who thinks that race had NOTHING to do with this is blind. Anyone who thinks race had EVERYTHING to do with it is blind as well. White people get arrested for not presenting proper identification. Was Gates MORE likely to have a problem because of his skin color? I would think so, yes. But if someone broke into my house, and a neighbor called it in to the police (and saying "two black men" as the neighbor did is simply describing the men. She might have said "two tall men" or "two women" or "two blond men"--in other words, just an attempt to make the officer's job easier, and protect her neighbor's property. On the other hand, she might have been more likely to call cops because the men were black. Historically, that has certainly been true.)

My sense is that wealthy, famous people get a sense of entitlement. Gates, from that point of view, didn't want to be given the privilege of a white person. He wanted the privilege of a WEALTHY, FAMOUS white person. And when he didn't get it, he got...well, the term "uppity" comes to mind. Ultimately, this is all good for the national debate. And will probably move things in the right direction.

##
Anyone know a "Birther"? I knew the crazies would come running from under their flat rocks when Obama was elected, but their frenzied disbelief is still kinda stunning. Knowing lots of black people who never believed they'd see a black man in the White House, and watching the steam come out of their ears as they saw it happen...I wondered what the parallel thought pattern would be among the whites who harbor racial antipathy. And clearly, they just can't believe it. He must be a fake. He must be a Manchurian Candidate (wouldn't McCain actually fit that bill one hell of a lot closer..?) There must be a gigantic conspiracy, involving thousands of people and stretching back almost five decades. Wow. That is some serious mental difficulty, and I feel sorry for them.

It is one of these "Birthers" by the way, who would make a perfect "lone gunman" fall-guy if anything Kennedyesque were to happen to our Prez. Man oh man, can I see that one coming.

124 comments:

Pagan Topologist said...

I hope to hell your last sentence does not come to pass, Steve.

My immediate reaction was that the Gates' incident was all about race, but you are right; there is a lot we don't know.

I have good health care paid for by my employer, but I think that public universal healthcare would most likely be better, so long as it did not involve taking away my choice of how much vitamin C and vitamin D, etc, that I take. Having a choice of a public option seems a pretty good way to go. For myself, I think I would not choose a voluntary public option immediately, but might well after seeing how it works in practice. All my friends who have experience with the systems in Canada, England, and Austria seem very happy with them.

Pagan Topologist said...

And by the way, Steve, while I am here, I want to thank you for maintaining the civil environment here for, as you say, often difficult and emotionally charged discussions.

I was recently a target of a vicious series of attacks in another online venue because I am white; I ventured to express an opinion about racism; and I did not toe the party line, so to speak.

The contrast between that forum and this one is most striking, and I for one have never before told you how much I appreciate it here.

Reluctant Lawyer said...

On the health care issue: I previously had health care through my employer but then switched to my wife's employer's health care when she was eligible for health care coverag through her employer.

I'm in favor of the public option. In fact, I would be in favor of universal health care. My reasons are as follows:

1. I lost my job about a year ago and lost health care coverage as a result. Did I mention that my wife was six months pregnant at the time and that she was not eligible for health care coverage under her employer? I was busting my butt to find new employment (as an attorney) as soon as I found out that I was going to lose my job. I was lucky and found a new position. Paying for health care coverage and my son's birth on my own would have been difficult if not impossible. Do not bring up COBRA. It is a joke. If I am going to have a choice in the matter, I would rather pay for a system where I will be covered if I lose my job, than one where I lose coverage as soon as I lose my employment. (By the way, as an employment lawyer, who graduated from the University of Chicago law school [extremely proud of my former professor. Unhappy about the long delay in returning my term paper] in practice for about 7 years, in a small and stable firm for the past 1.5 years, I consider loss of my job to be a real and constant threat).

2. My experience of living in Europe and having some contact (admittedly limited) with the German healthcare system indicated to me that such systems are not the massive-lined/delayed care systems that they are presented to be.

3. My wife has worked in the British healthcare system and the U.S. system. Her opinion is that while the UK system is not perfect, it does a lot better for the majority of its citizens. Particularly with an emphasis on preventive care.

4. My previous healthcare through my employer was absolute crap!!! $550 per month (more than my federal tax withholding) for my family with a $5600 annual deductible. It was catastrophic care at best.

5. I don't buy the argument that people have against paying for someone else's health care. (a) That's what you're doing with insurance anyway and (b) I'll pay for everyone else's health care as long as I know that when I'm in need, they (or the system) will pay for mine.

Dan Moran said...

I have great employer subsidized health care -- less than $200 a month for a family of 7, PPO including vision and dental. Maybe U.S. Senators have better health care than me, but not by much.

I'm not particularly in favor of the public option on insurance, though I'm OK with it; whatever mechanism gets us to universal health care is fine by me. My only question about the public option is whether it does that. (That is, my concerns about it run to the left of what's being disussed, not to the right.)

To borrow from Reagan, a rising tide lifts all boats -- a healthier country is a more productive country. Being in favor of universal health care is like being in favor of universal schooling -- I'm very skeptical of the people who object to either, and I think both improve my quality of life by improving the quality of life of the people around me.

I'm in the top 10% of wage earners in this country, and not at the bottom of that 10%, either. There's no practical scenario where I'm going to have difficulty providing for my family -- though even here college expenses for five kids are looking like somewhere north of a million dollars.

But my oldest daughter is 19. As long as she's enrolled full time at berkeley (28K a year) she's covered by my insurance. As soon as she's out, she's not. What does she do then? Daughter #2 is almost 18, same problem. I don't assume that employer-paid insurance is going to be around in another ten or twenty years; even now it's one of the largest expense centers for all companies.

The population is aging. If we don't get a handle on medical expenses now, there's zero chance this country's finances are ever going to get straightened out.

I spent the last year out of the country. There are better ways elsewhere to handle medical insurance, and if it comes to it, I'll take them. Most people don't have that option -- I can work anywhere. Most people can't.

The U.S. is flat-out broke. If it doesn't get a handle on the places where it's spending too much, and medical care is certainly one of them, the country's headed for dark, dark times, sufficient to make people look back on the Great Depresssion fondly.

Christian H. said...

Well, I can afford health care and have it through my job, but if I could save money with a public plan I would.

I have only sent two days in the hospital in my life and that was for appendicitis.

What the plan needs to do is sponsor healthy diets and lifestyles from childhood or obesity and sickness will continue increasing until we look like the people from Wall E. Well not me.





As far as birthers, it's just the ignorant coming out of the woodwork. People like that don't have the guts to attack anyone physically. They rely on people being unwilling to fight their whole life for what's right and just.

That's where our race has failed - at least the "men." There are 35-40 year old men dressing like 17 year old near-illiterate thugs.

That's why - I'd say - the Gates guy had problems. He's not standing up.

I have cursed cops out before and never got arrested. WHite ones at that.

I remember this one time I was riding my bike to check on my tax return and I was stopped by a female officer for - get this - riding my bike on the sidewalk.

I refused to show my ID until they proved that it was illegal. One large cop called himself intimidating someone by leaping out of the car. That didn't work.

And that's when I started cursing. Not at them but abotu the Brooklyn BS. I asked the black female why she wasn't concerned about the young "thugs" NOT having a dress code..
She said, "that's not up to me" as if Americans can't make changes.

Yet another reason why I want to pistol whip people.

Christian H. said...

@ Pagan,
What site was it? I'm sure they'll LOVE me.

Christian H. said...

Also, the other day I was watching some story on YouTube and a "centrist" was posting filth so I called him on it.

I challenged him to an intellectual debate and he declined pointing me to some "chimp" site.

I signed up as CrackaKilla and they immediately banned me so they get no respect from me.

I even offered him the opportunity to come and see me but again he declined.

CENTRISTS ARE COWARDS HIDING BEHIND numbers.

That doesn't work either because I will be going out with my boots on.

BTW, does anyone know where I can find the Klan? I'm sure they'd love me too.

When I lived in WA I used to go to white bars just to show them I have "NO FEAR."

When people say don't do this, I do it anyway. I have to sleep with myself.

Dan Moran said...

Christian,

http://www.christianconcepts.net/informat.htm

Christian Concepts
P.O. Box 2222
Harrison, Arkansas 72601

Write and tell them you're sending them a check for $150,000 -- they'll check the P.O. Box every day. Then you show up and challenge 'em to a debate or a boxing match or whatever.

Pagan Topologist said...

Christian, I will tell you via private message, but not here. I have no wish to stir things up there; it is a discussion group that mostly I like. Are you on Steve's 5MM discussion board? If so, I will send you a private message there if you tell me your name there.

Shady_Grady said...

This is what Dr. Gates had to say.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks

Christian H. said...

@ Pagan

My email is darealdjc at yahoo.com

Christian H. said...

@ Dan,

That site doesn't say where they are. I don't have time to hang out at PO Boxes in Arkansas.

Those "people" don't have any open forums. They hide behind BS.

If you come across any, please give them my email address. It's in the previous post.

I'd send them $.50 and some of my Enterprise level software.

Check out www.bms.com for some of my handy work.

Marty S said...

Steve: I know you said only those who are happy with their health care and for a government health care program should answer this post but I have to ask this. Medicare is the only example of government health insurance in this country. If government provided health care is so good, how come there exists a need for medicare supplemental insurance and so many people buy it.

Nancy Lebovitz said...

I don't have insurance. I believe the current system is diastrously bad, but I'm not convinced that any solution which comes out of the political process will be much better.

My prediction is that, if Obama gets a plan through, more people will be covered, but the costs will get a lot higher, rather than lower. And most of this will be because of deals made by the medical industry, not because more people get medical care.

I'm expecting something at least as impudent as the government not being allowed to bargain on drug priced.

I was wondering if Obama's ability to raise money from the public would be enough to free him from the lobbyists, but probably not. I don't know if it's because congress members don't have the same ability to raise money, Obama isn't sure he can do it twice, or whether his inclination to keep everyone in the discussion is preventing him from using it as a threat.

See this about why the cost is important.

See this for how the supply of doctors has been restricted, and why that's a serious part of the problem which is unlikely to change.

Lynn Gazis-Sax said...

I have cursed cops out before and never got arrested. WHite ones at that.

You were lucky. I got threatened with arrest, when stopped on a bicycle, simply for repeatedly asking the cop what I was under suspicion for before showing him my ID. In a level, non-cursing voice. (I'm convinced the cop wouldn't have acted that way, though, if I hadn't been living, at the time, in a poor, mostly Latino neighborhood. Every other time I've interacted with cops, including a time when I was in a car where the woman decided to flee rather than letting the cops stop her, the cops were less aggressive than that.)

Not, mind you, that the cops should have arrested you for cursing them. Cops should have thicker skins than that, and, even if I take the cops' report on Gates as gospel at all the points where it's at odds with his, they'd still be out of line for letting an identicifation request in his own home escalate to arrest after he'd showed him an ID and they knew he was the resident. No real excuse for them. Probably influenced by the fact that he was black, but even if it wasn't, no real excuse.

Lynn Gazis-Sax said...

I do have a health plan (and have had one my whole life except for one year after I graduated from college, when I was stuck without insurance or enough money to get it). I support a public option because:

1) Several other countries with a healthcare system that includes a public option seem to have a system that delivers comparable care to ours in most cases, and perhaps better results on some measures (e.g. infant mortality) in a more cost effective way.

2) The fact that a certain set of people under the current system wind up getting all their primary care in the emergency room troubles me.

3) Though I do have good health care, I'm also sole breadwinner for a chronically ill spouse, and despite all my attempts to save, I'm not that many paychecks from being unable to take care of him, should I get laid off, given the cost of covering COBRA myself (unless I drain my retirement plans to pay for his health care, if I can even do that without severe tax penalties). I'd be willing to pay a little extra in taxes for more security for me and especially for my husband, in the event of layoff. Because even though I'm darned good at what I do, I've learned that that isn't proof against layoff in all economic climates.

Reluctant Lawyer said...

Lynn,

I think that you hit the nail on the head. Ultimately, in the Gates situation, once he provided identification, there was no need to arrest him. The problem with this case is that race is going to dominate the debate. If you taken race out of it entirely what do you have: A man is arrested in his own home after providing identification.

Disorderly conduct - my general impression as a former prosecutor is that D/C charges are usually bs.

Anonymous said...

Steve take a look at this
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/conservative_activist_forwards_racist_pic_showing.php

Evil selfish and racist people continue to denigrate the President

Dan Moran said...

Marty,

Medicare is the only example of government health insurance in this country.

Not true. VA.

If government provided health care is so good, how come there exists a need for medicare supplemental insurance and so many people buy it.

Dunno about so good, but the people with medicare are happier than the people with private insurance, and report better access to care.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonline/mp_20090629_2600.php

Consider some results obtained by the same Kaiser tracking poll. When asked how much they trust various health care players "to put your interests above their own," respondents rank doctors (78 percent trust "a lot" or "some") and nurses (74 percent) at the top of the list.

Among those insured through Medicare, however, "the Medicare program" (68 percent) scores nearly as high. Among those with private insurance, "your health insurance company" earns much less trust (48 percent).


And his isn't recent; similar results from ths poll, which is 7 years old:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/News/News-Releases/2002/Oct/Survey--Medicare-Beneficiaries-Report-Greater-Satisfaction-With-Insurance--Better-Access-To-Care-Tha.aspx

Steven Barnes said...

Marty--

Simple. Because people always want more. Nothing wrong with that. But your example certainly puts the lie to the idea that insurance companies will go out of business. There will be a THRIVING business in providing additional services.

Steven Barnes said...

Pagan Topologist:
You are welcome, and thank all of YOU for helping to keep things civil here. Yes, we have the occasional juvenile post, but little actual venom. This kind of dialog is critical to a democratic society. Hell...to any society at all.

And remember when I said we should talk to our enemies? Well, political or philosophical opponents aren't "enemies"--if I can't speak respectfully to honest, honorable people who see the world differently, what the hell am I doing advocating discussion with people who might want to kill us?

bud said...

A long response:

A) Birthers-
You're right; the (right-side) tin-foil brigade is in full howl about this. OTOH, the time and effort spent by Obama and his folks to keep from actually presenting a real birth certificate raise my concern, because of this rather unique "feature" of Hawaiian citizenship (from http://www.hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html

) "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country." It reminds me too much of Kerry's DD214 flap, which never was resolved.

B) Gates -
They're both in the wrong. Gates for too being too damned touchy and the cop for being badge-heavy. Lipping off to cops is almost always a losing proposition. They get into the cop business because they like that power, and they're trained to always be "in control"; never reactive, always pro-active. Faced with a little agression, like lip, they respond at a higher level, like threats. Keep it up, and Gates found out where that leads. We need better police training and recruiting.

C) Health care -
First off, I'm over 65, so I'm "on" Medicare, but since I'm still working, I have regular employer-paid insurance, so I've never used a cent of Medicare, including the big bill for open-heart surgery. What insurace didn't cover, I paid for.

Second, I have dealt with Medicare- my MIL lived with us for years, and the level of paperwork for us was 2 to 3X what I dealt with with private insurance. As well, Medicare reimbursement to the doctors and hospitals was extraordinarily slow. The longest I've ever seen a private payment take was 7 months. My MIL was buried 18 months and some of her medical bills were still unpaid.

Third, my grandson is living with us while he goes to school, and he can't get decent insurance coverage because of a "pre-existing condition" (an ADD diagnosis), so I'm paying out-of-pocket for his medical expenses (dental care, prescription Ritalin and regular visits for prescribing same). Not cheap.

Fourth, I've personally dealt with government provided health care as well; I attempted, when I first got out of the Army to have the VA pay for correcting the dental screwups of the military. I finally gave up and paid my own.

I think you can see where I'm going with this. Gov't control - and that's EXACTLY what Obamacare is- of the health care system in this country would be a disaster. What we need is a better regulatory environment for health insurance, one that is more transparent, and one less likely to be captured by the medical establishment.

I know people who could certainly use some free health care, but I look at them and say, "You know, compared to me, right now, they are lacking, but, compared to me thirty years ago, there's no difference."

I have a bit of a selfish motive here, as well. It's pretty damned obvious that if the gov't controls all the medical resources, some bureaucrat is going to get to decide whether or not I'm "too old" to get the knee surgery I'm heading for. I'd rather take my chances on my own, thank you.

Marty S said...

Lynn: the article about the AMA and ADA the number of physicians and Dentist and indicating that there are the same number of graduates today as in 1970 when the population was only 200 million is some what unfair in that it doesn't give the whole picture. In 1970 the position of Physicians Assistant and Dental Assistant were brand new and there were very few of them today there are over 68000 PAs in the U.S and the number is growing rapidly. They do many of the routine exams the primary physicians used to do.

Christian H. said...

@Lynn,

I find that the only thing people "in power" respect is the desire to fight for your rights.

It had nothing to do with "cursing." I didn't curse the cops I said a curse word.

My point was that I have dealt with cops in "situations" and have always walked away. Hell, I've had cops pull their guns on me and I still cursed them out and walked away. Not every time but once shows that there is something else involved in these 35 shot cases.

It also brings up the case of the off-duty cop who looked like a thug and was shot by another officer.

IF men are knowing that certain modes of dress place you in the "suspicious" category,

WEAR BETTER CLOTHES.

NO EXCUSES!!!

Lynn Gazis-Sax said...

IF men are knowing that certain modes of dress place you in the "suspicious" category,

It's true that wearing certain modes of dress will make you more likely to be seen by cops as "suspicious." But ...

... are you actually saying that Skip Gates was arrested because he dressed shabbily and didn't assert his rights forcefully enough? Because this seems really, really unlikely to me, given Gates' account, the cop's account, and the arrest photo I've seen of Gates.

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一人で家出したんだけど助けてほしいです。今まで強がってました。もう親には頼れない…super-love.smile@docomo.ne.jp

お宝映像 said...

激レア映像!芸能人のお宝映像を一挙公開中!無料登録するだけでレアなお宝映像やハプニング画像が取り放題、期間限定の動画も見逃せない

熟女 said...

仕事を辞めてください。一日で今の月収を超えるお誘いがあります。某有名セレブ熟女の強い要望により少しの間、恋人契約という女性からのお申し込みがありました。今までは地位や名誉のために頑張ってこられたようでございますが年齢を重ね、寂しさが強くなってきたようでございます。男性との時間を欲しがっている女性に癒しを与えてくださいませ

メール said...

ストーカーの追い回されて怖いんです。毎日夜になると非通知電話多いし怖い。。。助けてくださいpeach-.-girl@docomo.ne.jp

スタビ said...

復活、スタービーチ!日本最大の友達探しサイトがついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタービーチをやってみませんか?理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう

処女 said...

「友達の中で処女なのは私だけ…でも恥ずかしくて処女だなんて言えない、誰でもイイからバージンを貰ってほしい!」そんな女性が沢山いる事をご存じですか?出合いが無かった、家が厳格だった等の理由でHを経験したことがない女性がたくさんいるのです。当サイトはそんな女性たちと男性を引き合わせるサイトです

メアド開運 said...

メアド開運、あなたの使ってるメアドを診断出来ちゃうサイト!吉と出るか凶と出るかはあなた次第、普段使ってるメアドの金運、恋愛運が測定できちゃいます

逆¥交際 said...

今話題の逆¥交際!あなたはもう体験しましたか?当サイトでは逆援希望の女性が男性を自由に選べるシステムを採用しています。成功を収めた女性ほど金銭面は豊かですが愛に飢えているのです。いますぐTOPページからどうぞ

豪華賞品 said...

只今、シャープ32型液晶テレビ、PS3等、豪華商品が当たるキャンペーンを実施中!まずは欲しい商品を選び、メールアドレスを登録して無料エントリー!その場で当たりが出たら賞品ゲットできます。抽選に外れた方もWチャンスで商品券等が当たります。ぜひチャレンジして下さい

メル友 said...

彼氏にDVされて、ちょっと男性不信です。でも、恋愛して彼氏も作りたいと思ってるので、優しく接してくれる人を探してます。連絡待ってまぁす! pretty-toy-poodle@docomo.ne.jp

神待ち said...

家出をして不安な少女たちの書込が神待ち掲示板に増えています。一日遊んであげたり、家に招いて泊まらせてあげるだけで、彼女たちはあなたに精一杯のお礼をしてくれるはずです

乱交 said...

全国乱交連盟主催、スワップパーティーに参加しませんか?初めての方でも安心してお楽しみいただけるパーティーです。参加費は無料、開催地も全国に120ヶ所ありますので気軽に参加してお楽しみ下さい

アブノーマル said...

SM・露出・スワッピング・レズ・女装・フェチなど…普通じゃ物足りないあなたが思う存分楽しめる世界!貴方だけのパートナーを探してみませんか?アブノーマルでしか味わえない至福の時をお過ごしください

セレブラブ said...

セレブラブでは毎月10万円を最低ラインとする謝礼を得て、セレブ女性に快楽を与える仕事があります。無料登録した後はメールアプローチを待つだけでもOK、あなたも当サイトで欲求を満たしあう関係を作ってみませんか

救援部 said...

一人Hを男性に見てもらうことで興奮する女性が多数いることをご存じですか?当サイト、救援部ではそんな女性たちが多数登録されています。男性会員様は彼女たちのオ○ニーを見てあげるだけで謝礼を貰えるシステムとなっております。

メル友募集 said...

冬に1人ボッチで家でご飯とかオヤスミなんて寂しすぎるょ~~っ!こんなところに書き込んだら削除されちゃいそうだけど少しでもきっかけ作らなくっちゃと思って書いてみましたっ!!気軽に会ったり出来たりする方ってこの掲示板見てませんか~!?良かったらメールくださいね★フリメだったら私気付けないんで携帯のアドレス乗せておくねっ!! love-sexy@docomo.ne.jp

失恋 said...

失恋は心に深い傷を残します。その傷を癒す特効薬、それは新しい出会い。あなたの心を癒す、素晴らしい出会いを当サイトで見つけて、笑顔を取り戻してください

高額バイト said...

高額バイトのご案内です。欲求不満になっている女性を癒して差し上げるお仕事です。参加にあたり用紙、学歴等は一切問いません。高収入を稼ぎたい、女性に興味のある方はぜひどうぞ

交際 said...

スタービーチの突然の閉鎖、優良な友達探しサイトが無くなってしまいましたが、新生・スタービーチがここに復活しました!、進化を遂げた新生スタービーチをやってみませんか?理想の交際探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう

神待ちサイト said...

「家出してるんで、泊まるところないですか?」家出救済神待ちサイトには毎日このような女の子からの書き込みがされています。彼女たちはホテルや家に泊まらせてあげたり、遊んであげるだけであなたに精一杯のお礼をしてくれるはずです

露出 said...

普通のプレイじゃ絶対味わえない快感、それは野外露出プレイ。最初は嫌がっていた女も次第にハマっていって、その内それが快感に変わってきます。野外露出プレイで興奮度アップ間違い無し

友達 said...

早い時期に結婚してしまって、少し後悔しているんです。私は、今の夫しか経験が無くって、このままでいいのかなって…。思うようになってきてしまって…冒険はしたいんですけど、やっぱりばれたりしたら怖いので…割り切りで会える方って居ませんでしょうか?連絡お待ちしてますね♪最初に年齢を教えてくれるとうれしいです。pop-music-lo-ve@docomo.ne.jp

スタービーチ said...

一時代を築いたスタービーチは閉鎖になりましたが、もう一度楽しい思いをしたい、もう一度出会いたいと思う有志により再度復活しました。本家以上に簡単に出会えて楽しい思いを約束します

女に生れて来たからには!! said...

誰にも言えない秘密があります。実はとってもHなんです、せっかく女として生まれたからにはアブノーマルな世界に飛び込んでみたいです☆普段では考えられないプレイを思う存分楽しみ、経験したいんです♪快楽に溺れさせてくれませんか?一緒に感じ合いましょう!!都合はつくのですぐに時間を合わせられます。18歳よりも上の方がいいです!! quietness@docomo.ne.jp

グリー said...

日本最大級、だれもが知っている出会い系スタービーチがついに復活、グリーより面白い新生スタビをやってみませんか?趣味の合う理想のパートナー探し、合コンパーティーに興味がある方はぜひ無料登録してみてください。楽しかった頃のスタビで遊んでみよう

友達募集中 said...

初書き込みで申し訳ないんですが、都合のいい男性探しています。不況の中でも会社が高成長してて、忙しい毎日です。お陰でプライベートが充実していなくって、溜まる一方です。財産的にも多少余裕が今のところあるのでお礼もできます。何より、この書き込みが読まれているのかちょっと怪しいですけど…。アドレス置いとくので、消されないうちにメールくれたら嬉しいです。inspiration.you@docomo.ne.jp

Tom Perkins said...

"Knowing lots of black people who never believed they'd see a black man in the White House, and watching the steam come out of their ears as they saw it happen"

Reading back though old posts, now that Instapundit has turned me on to you (why I'm posting now on such an old post).

I can tell you I have steam coming out of my ears because someone who was manifestly and foreseeably unprepared to even grow into the job got elected because of his skin color. To go by his record, Senator "Present" should have stuck to the usual graft of Chicago politicking.

"##The public option clearly panics many people--literally, they don't want people to have the CHOICE, which is bizarre to me."

Why should anyone want people to have the choice to cut checks from the fed treasury? Why is that distortion of the market and moral hazard a good thing to expand?

"But...aren't we paying twice as much for our health care as Canada (per capita) for lesser results?"\

Are we? Lesser how (more to the point, greater how)? Why are we paying more?...

..Because the only way to make them pay more (of the fair share for drug development costs) would be to bomb their pharma factories when they started making the results of the 1 of 50 (at best) drug development efforts which pan out, after we pay to find out which one that is, and then try to charge them the full fraction of freight they owe, and they tell our drug patent holders to sod off.

RE Birthers, there are only two rational reasons I can think of for Obama not producing the long form birth certificate, 1) there is something embarrassing to him on it, 2) never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake. There's nothing saying it can't be both.

Tom Perkins said...

"Knowing lots of black people who never believed they'd see a black man in the White House, and watching the steam come out of their ears as they saw it happen"

Reading back though old posts, now that Instapundit has turned me on to you (why I'm posting now on such an old post).

I can tell you I have steam coming out of my ears because someone who was manifestly and foreseeably unprepared to even grow into the job got elected because of his skin color. To go by his record, Senator "Present" should have stuck to the usual graft of Chicago politicking.

"##The public option clearly panics many people--literally, they don't want people to have the CHOICE, which is bizarre to me."

Why should anyone want people to have the choice to cut checks from the fed treasury? Why is that distortion of the market and moral hazard a good thing to expand?

"But...aren't we paying twice as much for our health care as Canada (per capita) for lesser results?"\

Are we? Lesser how (more to the point, greater how)? Why are we paying more?...

..Because the only way to make them pay more (of the fair share for drug development costs) would be to bomb their pharma factories when they started making the results of the 1 of 50 (at best) drug development efforts which pan out, after we pay to find out which one that is, and then try to charge them the full fraction of freight they owe, and they tell our drug patent holders to sod off.

RE Birthers, there are only two rational reasons I can think of for Obama not producing the long form birth certificate, 1) there is something embarrassing to him on it, 2) never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake. There's nothing saying it can't be both.

Tom Perkins said...

"There will be a THRIVING business in providing additional services."

Except now that we've sort of seen the bill, "additional services" are "cadillac plans" and will be punitively taxed. Nice assumptions you made there.

玉の輿度チェッカー said...

当サイトは、みんなが玉の輿に乗れるかどうか診断できる性格診断のサイトです。ホントのあなたをズバリ分析しちゃいます!玉の輿度チェッカーの診断結果には、期待以上の意外な結果があるかも

リア友 said...

メル友らんどでは誰でも気軽にメル友が作れちゃう、参加無料でいつでも利用可能なコミュニティサイト♪ご近所の気の合うリア友や、真面目に彼氏彼女探しなど、楽しみ方は無限大!自分にぴったりの相手を見つけちゃおう

お家遊びに来てくれる人いないかなぁ? said...

一人暮らし寂しいよ~(泣)誰かお家遊びにきてくれないかなぁ?休みの日とかも全然予定ありません。料理作るの得意だから来てくれたら食べてほしいな♪見た目は悪くないと思うから安心してください!(笑)細かい事は気にしないけど18歳未満の人は微妙かな、気軽に仲良くしてください milky-yukinko@docomo.ne.jp

神待ち said...

冬に1人でネカフェとか寂しすぎやし、でも自分から積極的に声を掛けれる娘ばかりと違い、内気な娘は神待ちと言われるように自分の事を助けてくれるのを待ってるんです。貴方の優しさを待ってる娘は意外な程多いよ

家出掲示板 said...

あなたのご近所の女の子たちと無料でカンタンにであえる家出掲示板!大学生・専門学生、まさかの女子○生まで!ちょっとしたお小遣い稼ぎに全国の女の子たちが殺到中!ノーピンクからちょっぴりHなお誘いまで…自分に合ったコを選んでメッセしちゃおう

名言チェッカー said...

簡単な設問に答えるだけで貴方にふさわしい名言がわかる、名言チェッカー!あなたの本当の性格を見抜いちゃいます。世界の偉人達が残した名言にはどことなく重みがあるものです

モバゲー said...

最高の遊び場、スタービーチ!日本最大の友達探しサイトがついに復活、モバゲーより面白い新生スタビをやってみませんか?理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう

円倶楽部 said...

当逆円倶楽部ではリッチなセレブと割り切りでお付き合いしてくださる男性を募集しています。女性の性欲を満たし、高額報酬をもらって楽しく暮らしてみませんか?興味がある方はアルバイト感覚での1日登録もできる、安心の無料入会を今すぐどうぞ。

神待ち said...

家出中の少女たちの書込が神待ち掲示板に増えています。ご飯を食べさせてあげたり、家に招いて泊まらせてあげるだけで、彼女たちはあなたに精一杯のお礼をしてくれるはずです

出会い said...

セフレ専門出会い喫茶エンジョイラブは店舗型出会い喫茶 ENJOYグループのネット1号店としてオープンしました♪セフレ探しを目的とした出会いの専門店です。Hに満足していない女性達が多数登録。今すぐ即アポOK表示のHな女の子を新着順で紹介中です

熟女 said...

熟女だって性欲がある、貴方がもし人妻とSEXしてお金を稼ぎたいのなら、一度当サイトをご利用ください。当サイトには全国各地からお金持ちのセレブたちが集まっています。女性から男性への報酬は、 最低15万円からと決めております。興味のある方は一度当サイト案内をご覧ください

mコミュ said...

mコミュで理想の恋人を見つけよう!某女性誌に紹介され、女の子の登録者が急増中です。新しい出会いの場としてあまり知られていない今ならメールの返信がすぐに返ってくるかも!?無料登録から始めてみよう

真剣に向き合ってはくれませんか? said...

初めての書き込みでちょっぴり緊張してます、男の人と出会うきっかけがなくて!こう言う場をかりてみるのもひとつのきっかけですよね。周りの友達は彼氏とラブラブの毎日、あたしもラブラブな毎日を過ごしたい、21歳の恥ずかしがり屋なんで、年上で引っ張ってくれる人がいいです。メールしてくれたら返事は確実だよ♪ワクワクしながらメール待ってます love.love.happy-@docomo.ne.jp

スタービーチ said...

復活、スタービーチ!日本最大のであい系がついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか?理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう

神待ち said...

家出・神待ちサイト神風は家出少女が集まる人気サイトをクチコミから集めた家出サイト専用のリンク集です。風のように現れる神となってあなたも家出少女を救ってあげて下さい

右脳左脳チェッカー said...

ランク王国でもご紹介された右脳左脳チェッカー、天才肌を見分ける楽しい盛り上がりツールとして今、支持をうけております。みんなでやれば盛り上がる事は間違いなし診断結果でも全国ランキングなどにランクインされて面白さ倍増!話のネタに一度はどうぞ

セレブ said...

ゴージャスなリッチセレブリティ達のアダルトコミュニティーサイト!お金と時間に優雅なセレブ女性達はアダルトコミュで男性との秘密交際を楽しんでいるのです

高級セレブ said...

ゴージャスなリッチセレブリティ達のアダルトコミュニティーサイト!お金と時間に優雅な高級セレブ女性達はアダルトコミュで男性との秘密交際を楽しんでいるのです

メル友 said...

変な性癖があるのはどう思いますか?私、獣姦とか好きなんです…いきなりこんな話驚きますよね…引きましたか?Σ(゜□゜(゜□゜*)野外とかにも興味があります!変態チックなのもたまにはいいですよ\(^-^ )こんな私にメールしてくれるとうれしいです。メールから色んな話しましょ(^_^)年上の人がいいです、私は27歳ですよ!それでは、メール待ってますね sasisuseso309@docomo.ne.jp

ツイッター said...

ツイッターで始まるであいの掲示板は新感覚のコミュニティ☆男女とも無料の年齢認証登録だけで即参加!!掲示板に参加後はプロフ作成やお友達検索、メッセージの交換等など多彩なコンテンツで貴方のであいをしっかりサポート

恋愛のこと教えてねヽ(^◇^*)/ said...

仕事や趣味に夢中になってたらいつの間にか独りきりになってた…彼氏も長いこといなくて恋愛から離れてました( ´_ゝ`)そろそろ恋愛にも夢中になりたいけど男の子とどうせっしたらいいか教えて下さい(-^▽^-) 動物好きだから、年上で動物好きな人仲良くしてね(。・w・。 ) ペット連れて散歩なんていいよね!!まずはのんびりメールからお願いします sweet-rose.perfume@docomo.ne.jp

スタービーチ said...

一時代を築いたスタービーチは閉鎖になってしまいましたが、もう一度楽しい思いをしたい、もう一度であいたいと思う有志により再度復活しました。本家以上に簡単に会えて楽しい思いを約束します

mコミュ said...

PC対応!掲示板コミュニティサイトmコミュでであいを満喫しませんか?素敵なであいをあなたにお届けいたします

競馬予想 said...

2010 競馬予想 各厩舎・調教師から届けられる最強の馬券情報を限定公開!本物の オッズ 表はコレだ

友達 said...

変わってるって言われるけどわりといい人だよ(笑)!!お笑い好きな人だったら話盛り上がりそうだねO(≧▽≦)O 色んなことに興味深々でおっちょこちょいだからそばで支えてくれる人募集中σ(゜-^*)自分の年齢的に年下の男の子はアウトだからごめんね(*_ _)人 u-3-ummm52@docomo.ne.jp

スタービーチ said...

【緊急】突如として消えたスタービーチが復活!長い年月をかけて不死鳥の如く蘇ったスタビをお楽しみください【緊急】

モテる度チェッカー said...

今迄モテたのに最近イマイチな人、これからもモテる気配の無い人、モテて人生変えたい人、一度モテる度チェッカーを体験しませんか。良くある出合いサイトにリンクされるのでは無く、親身なアドバイス結果が出ます。これで人生が変わった人がいますよ

皐月賞 said...

皐月賞・競馬予想!各厩舎・調教師から届けられる最強の馬券情報を限定公開!本物のオッズ表はコレだ

モバげー said...

モバげーとスタビ、異性とのであいを探すならやはりこの2つのサイトは外せない。Mixiよりも遊べるサイトで楽しもう

セフレ said...

セフレ掲示板で大人の恋愛をしてみませんか?割り切ったセフレと快楽のみを求めた恋愛をしてくださいませ

出会い said...

数多くある出会い系の中でも簡単に出会えるのはココ!女の子の登録人数が多いのであなたの地域のカワイイ娘もゲット出来ちゃうんです

スタービーチ said...

新しくリニューアルオープンしたスタービーチでは、新しいであいのカタチを提案します☆日本で一番有名なであい系、スタビならあなたに出逢いたい人が必ず見つかります

エッチ度チェッカー said...

合コンの必須うアイテムと言えば、エッチ度チェッカーと言うぐらいの知名度です。エッチ度をチェックして、気になる娘と親しくなるチャンスをつかもう。奥手の方でもその日の内にお持ち帰り出来るように、診断結果にはアドバイスも

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチで友達探し!出逢い広場は簡単な無料登録するだけで使い放題でメンバー同士、気軽にメッセージのやり取りが出来るよ!女の子と出逢いのチャンスがあるかも!?詳しくはTOPページにアクセスしてみよう

スタビ said...

いつでもであい放題&即逢いOK!スタビで暇な時間にであいを探そう!!であいが今までなかった人も当サイト、スタービーチなら簡単検索機能であなたの理想の方と出会えちゃう!?簡単登録で今すぐご利用いただけます

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチが完全リニューアルして復活しました!!あの伝説級の出会い系サイトが満を持して再降臨。煌めくような今この瞬間にあなたの胸にもときめきをお届けします

モバゲー said...

モバゲーで探せるご近所掲示板で簡単であい!ゲーム攻略やおススメ小説情報もここでGET!ここでしか見れない裏技も公開中

スタービーチ said...

一時代を築いたスタービーチは閉鎖になってしまいましたが、もう一度楽しい思いをしたい、もう一度遊びたいと思う有志により再度復活しました。本家以上に簡単に会えて楽しい思いを約束します

友達 said...

彼女募集中の人やフリーの人は絶対絡んでください☆ゆきとメールしよ♪ chu-chu-chulip@docomo.ne.jp

モバゲー said...

日本最大、モバゲーより面白いであい系スタービーチがついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか?趣味の合う理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビで遊んでみよう

スタービーチ said...

ついに帰ってきたドキドキスタービーチで素敵な恋をGETしよう♪会員数も50万人突破で以前よりも直ぐに理想の相手にであえちゃう!!恋人募集中!!友達仲間を増やしたい方必見!!素敵なであいをお楽しみ下さい☆

ヴィクトリアマイル said...

ヴィクトリアマイル 2010 予想、オッズ、厳選買い目は?今年の波乱をズバリ!確勝買い目公開中!大穴狙いのギャンブラー必見激アツ情報

モバゲー said...

モバゲータウンでであいを求めているなら当サイトへ!当コミュニティサイトは本家のモバゲータウンよりはるかにであいやすい、まさにユーザー様の為のサイトとなっております。であいをお楽しみください

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチから始まる新たな恋をしませんか?スタビ掲示板を利用して新たな恋をしていきましょう

日本ダービー said...

第77回 日本ダービー 2010 予想、オッズ、厳選買い目は?人気が平然と馬券に絡む理由とは!?見事に展開を読んで結果を的中させる

SM度チェッカー said...

最近普通のプレイに物足りなさを感じているそこのアナタ、ワンランク上のプレイをしてみませんか?そんな時の目安にSM度チェッカーを使うんです。自分の深層心理を暴きパートナーとのプレイ時のアドバイスも付きますよ!!一度どうですか

mコミュ said...

mコミュは無料登録で友達を沢山作る事のできる掲示板サイトです。使った事のない人でも簡単に使う事ができるのでお気軽にお立ち寄りください

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチの出合いは他の出合い系サイトのものよりも確実に良い思いができるのは間違いありません。新しい出合いを求めたいと思っているのなら当サイトを利用してください。損はさせませんよ

mコミュ said...

素敵な出 会 いで愛を育む♪理想の人と楽しめる関係を築きませんか?mコミュでしか味わえない幸せを掴みましょう

スタビ said...

スタビが今一番アツイのはご存じでしょうか?夏休みで出会いを探している娘とすぐに会えちゃうんです。登録無料でここまで出会える所は他には存在しません。今登録して良いパートナーに巡り合おう

gree said...

greeで素敵な時間を過ごしたい・・・そんな願望を叶えてくれるサイト誕生!!今までにないドキドキ感と興奮をこのグリーで楽しみましょう

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチで始まる素敵な出 合いをしていきませんか。楽しめる出 合いを経験するにはココから始まる!!最高の出 合いがあなたを待っている

モバゲー said...

もう夏休みも終わりに近づき、この夏最後の思い出を作りたいと焦ってる方が、モバゲーのコミュニティーに書かれてましたよ!!折角なんで夏の思い出作りに協力して自分も美味しい思いをしてみるのはどうですか?大手スポンサーサイトが付いてるので全部タダですよ

グリー said...

最近はどこのSNSサイトも規制ばっかりで、ちょっと出 合いに関して書き込みするとアク禁食らうけど、夏休み終盤に差し掛かり色々なサイトを調べた結果、グリーだけはどうも規制が緩んでるみたいです。今がチャンスの時期ですよ

mコミュ said...

mコミュでならご近所さんと出会える確率99%!友達や恋人を探してる人はここで見つけてみませんか