tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post7630491207995865662..comments2024-03-25T17:38:55.490-07:00Comments on Dar Kush: "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" and "Forbidden Kingdom"Steven Barneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13630529492355131777noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-47783267475980309522008-04-23T09:26:00.000-07:002008-04-23T09:26:00.000-07:00The problem is that you compare the ONLY black cha...The problem is that you compare the ONLY black character with the most objectionable white character--not factoring in the fact that there are plenty of other white characters to balance the imagery.<BR/>#<BR/>Black sexuality in Television isn't something I track the same way I do with film:<BR/>1) I have no way of keeping track of everything on TV, so I have no idea what percentages any particular image represents.<BR/>2) I have no way of keeping precise track of the impact of such scenes on the ratings. Remember: it's not whether Hollywood will use the image, it's whether America buys it.<BR/>3) The fact that Sally Fields has a romantic involvement with Danny Glover is a VERY clear example of the "Breeding Circle" phenomenon. It's all about making kids. Fields, being post-menopausal...well, I hate to say this, but it simply isn't considered as offensive, because Glover isn't keeping a white penis from a baby socket. <BR/>4) The sheer number of hours of television per week make room for all kinds of imagery. The fact that an interracial image crops up...or a black sexual image crops up...is meaningless unless I can look at the percentage of overall images, and the degree of acceptance by the audience. I just can't track that stuff--too much data. So I stick with movies.Steven Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630529492355131777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-60170580547352470472008-04-22T15:13:00.000-07:002008-04-22T15:13:00.000-07:00I'll echo Marty's sentiment. I stopped watching Bo...I'll echo Marty's sentiment. I stopped watching Boston Legal a while back for similar reasons. The show has a MUCH more liberal POV than mine, but that was fine when it was, you know, FUNNY. But it's turned into political soapbox issue (or three) of the week with one or another of our heroes pontificating in court. If I want to be lectured by humorless sorts, I'll go read Kos, thanks.<BR/><BR/>As for Clarence, yeah, that's an issue. But still--given the choice, I'd much rather spend time with Clarence than Jerry (the twitchy white guy)...or most of the other characters, for that matter. Yeah, he dresses in drag and all the rest, but he's much more pleasant person (in any of his personas) than those others.Mark Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01994430001543710190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-27716336313719033262008-04-22T10:00:00.000-07:002008-04-22T10:00:00.000-07:00Steve:Under your assumptions I would agree. Instin...Steve:<BR/>Under your assumptions I would agree. Instinctively, I didn't feel your characterization of blacks on TV was currently true. Several shows I watch have black lead characters(the unit,kville,Lincoln Heights) and a number of others have black secondary characters like the show Numbers. Younger ones both male and female I think are attractive and don't seem to be more non breeders than whites on television. However, as I thought about your comments I realized there were a number of shows I watch, like NCIS which have no major black characters and so overall you may be right at least about the under representation.<BR/><BR/>Marty SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-68284644831531895002008-04-22T09:07:00.000-07:002008-04-22T09:07:00.000-07:00Danny Glover has done a nice six- episode turn on ...Danny Glover has done a nice six- episode turn on Brothers & Sisters as a Republican campaign advisor. Wound up in a sexual relationship with Sally Field's character. <BR/><BR/>Of course, you don't see them in bed together; best the producers can manage is an onscreen kiss and a few hugs. (Don't see the gay kid getting it on, either. Only bed stuff is between the white heteros, and it's TV PG.)<BR/><BR/>In the Glover/Fields case, they won't live happily ever after, since he's gone back to D.C. and no way that mom was gonna leave her brood. Still, there was a time when a black man kissing a white woman on the tube would have been unthinkable. <BR/><BR/>So slow. Makes a glacier look like the Road Runner ...Steve Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12079658447270792228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-10685485911961494302008-04-22T08:00:00.000-07:002008-04-22T08:00:00.000-07:00" the fact that they have a black play such an out..." the fact that they have a black play such an outrageous roll to me says that blacks are like anyone else. We can put them in unusual role without fear of being criticized as being racist."<BR/>--Marty, that would be true IF the distribution of black characters is roughly proportional to their statistical presence in the population OR if, when black characters are present, they are sexual and lean-bodied at the approximate rate their white counterparts are. IF their presence (on average) is WAY below statistical real-world presence, OR if when they are presented, they are very disproportunately "non-breeders" or held to ridicule, then I suggest it is hardly evidence of "lack of racism" but rather the very epitome of it.Steven Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630529492355131777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-43379842184978803002008-04-22T04:32:00.000-07:002008-04-22T04:32:00.000-07:00I stopped watching the show this year. While their...I stopped watching the show this year. While their view on social issues was frequently more liberal than mine it was tolerable, but when they went on a liberal one sided crusade on political issues I stopped watching. With respect to the Clarence character<BR/>1) they have several other outrageous characters on the show. Even Shatner's character is something of a buffoon.<BR/>2) the fact that they have a black play such an outrageous roll to me says that blacks are like anyone else. We can put them in unusual role without fear of being criticized as being racist. <BR/><BR/>Marty SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-29097098540300361122008-04-22T03:02:00.000-07:002008-04-22T03:02:00.000-07:00"Whereas James Spader's character and the other Wh..."Whereas James Spader's character and the other White male attorneys regularly win cases and bed their ravishing co-workers and clients, poor Clarence makes due with playing Court Jester to his sultry, dark-eyed boss."<BR/><BR/>Seems like in later episodes they oughtta have Clarence fall in love with a cool character who totally loves him back, who's neither his co-worker nor his client (so it's clearer that her love is real instead of trying to keep her job or manipulate her lawyer), and stays with him for the rest of the series. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-73752781761190739672008-04-21T15:41:00.000-07:002008-04-21T15:41:00.000-07:00Regrettably, Boston Legal, the excellent TV drama ...Regrettably, Boston Legal, the excellent TV drama that probes social issues with biting satire,is marred by the Sambo Affliction. Its longest running Black character is Clarence, an obese, effeminate male transvestite given to torrential temper tantrums. Whereas James Spader's character and the other White male attorneys regularly win cases and bed their ravishing co-workers and clients, poor Clarence makes due with playing Court Jester to his sultry, dark-eyed boss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-73442323851180695292008-04-21T15:30:00.000-07:002008-04-21T15:30:00.000-07:00"Well...maybe. I don't think its as much revenge a..."Well...maybe. I don't think its as much revenge as simply wish-fullfilment."<BR/><BR/>I was also reminded of how some men claim "nice guys finish last" when they end up alone after being rejected by women who prefer jerks. As if the women who do prefer nice men (and whom even these self-proclaimed "nice guys" reject) don't finish even further behind.<BR/><BR/>Hmm.<BR/><BR/>Seems to me that the wish being fulfilled often includes (a) the women "out of their league" dating them and (b) the women "in their league" not even existing never mind being in the "mating circle" (if they admitted we exist they couldn't claim to be finishing last...).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-85027739614545202342008-04-21T11:39:00.000-07:002008-04-21T11:39:00.000-07:00Jerry--I agree that that is a major threshold. My...Jerry--<BR/><BR/>I agree that that is a major threshold. My former father in law had real problems with my race at first, but he grew into it superbly. I remember his wedding present was negligee, with a command to "start making some Grandkids!" Wow. He later wrote an article for some organization he belonged to called "my son-in-law used to be black." I get where he was coming from, totally. In life, it's not where we start. Its where we end up, and the way we shared love along the way.Steven Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630529492355131777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-47644381737308836652008-04-21T10:45:00.000-07:002008-04-21T10:45:00.000-07:00I'm from Southern California, but when I was in th...I'm from Southern California, but when I was in the military, I went to teacher college in Council Bluffs, Iowa, right in the middle of the midwest. I remember one class discussion on race where many of the students were so proud because they had bought their children little black doll babies to play with. They felt they were doing their share to combat racism in future generations. Then, I asked them whether any of them would mind if their child ended up marrying someone of another race. There was a long silence, and then the teacher moved on to another topic. I think that we're racists until we're at the point where we would be comfortable welcoming a decent person of another race into our family.<BR/><BR/>Jerry S.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-89174097747987999562008-04-21T08:19:00.000-07:002008-04-21T08:19:00.000-07:00The writer of "Forbidden Kingdom" is supposedly a ...The writer of "Forbidden Kingdom" is supposedly a sparring partner for Jet Ji. Wow. Wish fullfillment fantasy, indeed.<BR/>##<BR/>I know of no study re: televised images and political power. My guess is that television mostly follows the zeitgeist, but can have some influence.<BR/>##<BR/>I do see a vastly wider variety of roles in film and television. There are still problems, but the only one I can quantify easily is the one about sex. In general, I am extremely proud of the way things are going.Steven Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630529492355131777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-67417037793009434222008-04-21T06:20:00.000-07:002008-04-21T06:20:00.000-07:00This reminds me, I can't remember if you mentioned...This reminds me, I can't remember if you mentioned if you got the copy of Richard Morgan's "Black Man" AKA "Thirteen". <BR/><BR/>It's not something I'd cast Will Smith in, but with enough modification it would make an amazing movie.<BR/><BR/>I'm glad you liked Forbidden Kingdom. I'll have to go see it with an eye for the action. The only action movie that really did anything for me of late was Shoot 'Em Up.Josh Jasperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08441897278413737658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-33193482710881491072008-04-21T04:42:00.000-07:002008-04-21T04:42:00.000-07:00mjholt said she would like to see a middle class d...mjholt said she would like to see a middle class drama centered on black characters. Lincoln Heights on ABC Family seems to me to fit the bill. I am wondering how anyone else who's seen the show views it.<BR/><BR/>Marty SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-16920346285903585162008-04-21T04:28:00.000-07:002008-04-21T04:28:00.000-07:00Is there historical evidence for whether movies (a...Is there historical evidence for whether movies (and, presumably, tv) lead political power or follow it?<BR/><BR/>Where does the portrayal of blacks as respectworthy and/or not getting killed for the sake of white characters fit with how black people are actually treated?Nancy Lebovitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07068537632391466902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-92002830110297131762008-04-21T04:18:00.000-07:002008-04-21T04:18:00.000-07:00What are the patterns that are more subtle than se...What are the patterns that are more subtle than sex in the movies?<BR/><BR/>I've been tracking the sex thing in books, and it's remarkably horrifying in Farnham's Freehold. Recently, we get a replay in Inkheart-- the Arab boy (who's been in the adventure with a white family which includes a girl since fairly early in the book) leaves them at the end because he "doesn't belong". To be fair, I haven't read the sequel(s) yet.Nancy Lebovitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07068537632391466902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-85314680336729582402008-04-21T04:14:00.000-07:002008-04-21T04:14:00.000-07:00The big deal around these parts is that Forbidden ...The big deal around these parts is that Forbidden Kingdom was written by a local guy.<BR/><BR/>Screenwriter John Fusco not only wrote the script, but he wrote it while living in Vermont, not LA or New York.<BR/><BR/>According to VPR "Fusco has written a number of Hollywood screenplays including Young Guns, Thunderheart and Hidalgo. He has himself studied martial arts at the Vermont Kung Fu Academy in Essex."<BR/><BR/>The character in the film, Lupo, also has ties to Vermont. He is played by Morgan Benoit who is a Vermont native.<BR/><BR/><I>When Morgan was about nine years old, he started taking classes in martial arts but, he didn't get serious about it until he was enrolled in the Vermont Kung Fu Academy at the age of 15 and started training in the Shaolin praying mantis and tan tui systems. Learning mostly northern styles suited him best. At eighteen he went to China to train at the Beijing Sports University as well as the Shi Cha Hai sports school where he had a private instructor. (Shi Cha Hai is also the school where Jet Li trained in his youth.)<BR/><BR/>Morgan remained in China for nine years, not only training in martial arts but also developing an interest in film stunt work. He soon was featured in several Chinese and Hong Kong TV series and films.</I>Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15123761608738909200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-46232727461821997822008-04-21T03:06:00.000-07:002008-04-21T03:06:00.000-07:00"Oh...and as someone who doesn't find Sarah Jessic..."Oh...and as someone who doesn't find Sarah Jessica Parker particularly attractive, I've always considered 'Sex and the City' to be a shlumpy woman's fantasy about dating out of her league."<BR/><BR/>Cool. I read the novel and didn't watch Parker's version (books beat TV for me :) ).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-50759531306222885302008-04-21T01:07:00.000-07:002008-04-21T01:07:00.000-07:00YES!!!!!Oh...and as someone who doesn't find Sarah...YES!!!!!<BR/><I>Oh...and as someone who doesn't find Sarah Jessica Parker particularly attractive, I've always considered "Sex and the City" to be a shlumpy woman's fantasy about dating out of her league.</I>mjholthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00626250928180743075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-66419207872077684722008-04-21T01:06:00.000-07:002008-04-21T01:06:00.000-07:00Steve, reading Dar Kush is changing how I look at ...Steve, reading Dar Kush is changing how I look at TV. I don't have time for much, but I like and watch Numb3rs. The characters are diverse, the religion sketchy, and the nerdy talents of the characters very much front and center. <BR/><BR/>One of the characters, David Sinclair played by Alimi Ballard, caught my attention when the show started because he is a very handsome, very dark skinned African-American. The depth of tone of his skin made him stand out. He and Dylan Bruno (character is Colby Granger) play the second banana partners. Their screen time and importance increased through the first season as the show became more of a group piece. <BR/><BR/>I was torn by the episode from two Friday's ago about a chess playing kid from the 'hood who is unwittingly taking messages from a black gang leader who is in prison to his thugs on the streets as the gang leader teaches him high-level chess. The messages are embedded in chess moves he gives the boy to practice. What's wrong with chess playing black gangsters and smart but abandoned black kids? Nothing, in one sense. In another, I am so tired of black men being shown as gangsters and black women shown as whores I cringe when such images flash on my screen. Sometimes I turn it off. Sometimes I don't, depending on the show. Part of the pay off in this story is the handsome black FBI agent making friends with the kid. That was done with a deft hand, too.<BR/><BR/>I admit that I don't watch the black sitcoms. I don't watch the white ones either. Hate sit coms.<BR/><BR/>I'd like to see a middle-class black drama show. Monk and 7th Heaven come to mind as examples of middle-class white drama shows. I am tired of tokens. I would like to see a show that portrayed black women like the one's I know. J.T. Steward and Nisi Shawl come to mind.<BR/><BR/>One thing I do like about Numb3rs is it is the revenge of the nerds of any race and background. They are the FBI and like Elliot Ness they get their men.<BR/><BR/>One show last season was about a Warren Jeffs sort. If you can catch it, its worth the time.mjholthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00626250928180743075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-44608861762594693082008-04-21T00:24:00.000-07:002008-04-21T00:24:00.000-07:00I would LOVE to think that things have changed eno...<I>I would LOVE to think that things have changed enough for Obama to have some kind of an advantage based on race. But I see nothing, nothing at all in the culture to support that other than a lot of wishful thinking by very nice people. And a bit of venomous thinking by others who are not nice at all.</I><BR/><BR/>Here is a link to a video of a protest held at ABC/Disney studios the other day over the ABC "debate". No Sambo here, just a lot of people of different races, ethnicities, genders, and ages being very articulate about the disgusting show ABC put on.<BR/><BR/>It is from from The BRAD BLOG! <BR/>I believe this was made by Alan Breslauer and Brad Freidman.<BR/><BR/>'VIDEO EXCLUSIVE: ABC News Democratic Debate Protest In Los Angeles' at: <BR/>http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5913mjholthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00626250928180743075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-22998105519817230662008-04-20T14:55:00.000-07:002008-04-20T14:55:00.000-07:00Oh...and as someone who doesn't find Sarah Jessica...Oh...and as someone who doesn't find Sarah Jessica Parker particularly attractive, I've always considered "Sex and the City" to be a shlumpy woman's fantasy about dating out of her league.Steven Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630529492355131777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-63347524748357317102008-04-20T14:52:00.000-07:002008-04-20T14:52:00.000-07:00Well...maybe. I don't think its as much revenge a...Well...maybe. I don't think its as much revenge as simply wish-fullfilment. I don't notice Apatow's movies wanting bad things to happen to the female characters.And bad things don't happen to the non-white characters, either. I think it's more a matter of intimidation: that in order to reduce non-white characters from the "threat" category, the subconscious mind gives them characteristics that remove them from the "Mating Circle" (this explains the obesity, gayness, and Morgan Freeman as God). As for not-hot guys wanting hot girls...again, that's as much a fantasy as a little girl wanting a Prince. Heck, who wouldn't like to score out of his/her league once in a while?Steven Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630529492355131777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-34753014528160670122008-04-20T13:10:00.000-07:002008-04-20T13:10:00.000-07:00I'm reminded a bit of this:http://www.boston.com/m...I'm reminded a bit of this:<BR/><BR/>http://www.boston.com/movies/display?display=movie&id=10574<BR/><BR/>"The movies that come out of the Judd Apatow comedy factory are the real revenge of the nerds. In them the human male at his most woebegone manages to score with women who in the real world wouldn't touch him with a pair of tweezers. The heroes are pudges, mouthbreathers, loners, stoners - the average guy on a less-than-average day. It's a hell of a fantasy, and audiences of both genders seem to love it. (So why hasn't anyone made a movie about a schlumpy woman with dandruff attracting a himbo? Because it wouldn't make any money. Figure that one out.)..."<BR/><BR/>Seems to me it's less revenge of the nerds and more revenge of the white male nerds against black men and female nerds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com