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many cultural decisions are made that dam...No doubt many cultural decisions are made that damage women and their health, shorten their lives, and so forth. But that core statistic of life expectancy says a lot to me. I'm sure there's a country somewhere where the average woman lives a shorter life than the average man, but I don't know what it is. Yes, all of the problems are there--but it doesn't seem to impact that most important stat very much. So I think that what happens is that people are sensitized to see the shit that happens to women, and are blind to equal and opposite shit happening to men.Steven Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630529492355131777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-7259726710134310932008-04-25T05:29:00.000-07:002008-04-25T05:29:00.000-07:00"To my knowledge, there is no case, anywhere in th..."To my knowledge, there is no case, anywhere in the world, at any point in history, of the men of a town, city, state, or nation killing all of their own women"<BR/><BR/>Does increasing the odds of "their" girls dying in childbirth before reaching adulthood count as leaning in that direction?<BR/><BR/>http://www.endfistula.org/family_planning.htm<BR/><BR/>"...Young married girls are often pressured to get pregnant soon after marriage and may face a variety of barriers to accessing contraceptive services. In spite of laws against early marriage, 82 million girls in developing countries will be married before they turn 18. About half of all teenage girls will have their first child by the time they turn 18..."<BR/><BR/>Years ago I saw someone label temporary-contraception access for teen girls as genocide against his community. Then there are the ones who seem to think letting girls refuse sex right after menarche and marry later is cultural genocide. It's as if they want their communities to rely on girls instead of women for babies. Obviously not all men agree! Meanwhile, how common or rare is their attitude, and do they envy or condemn other communities with lower teen pregnancy rates?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-66790255916274080572008-04-25T04:12:00.000-07:002008-04-25T04:12:00.000-07:00Meanwhile, the "hand that rocks the cradle" stuff ...Meanwhile, the "hand that rocks the cradle" stuff earlier reminded me a bit of this. The nose that rocks the baby who's out of the cradle definitely doesn't rule the world, but how much influence could it have on someone that young and small?<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7FJRbSGb5cAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-73840457428032549542008-04-25T02:30:00.000-07:002008-04-25T02:30:00.000-07:00"But rebellious, I-don't-give-a-fuck non-conformis..."But rebellious, I-don't-give-a-fuck non-conformists, yeah, lot's of women go for those (especially when young).<BR/><BR/>"To a degree, I've even found some of those things attractive - not so much the I-don't-give-a-fuck part, but a degree of creative non-conformity."<BR/><BR/>Especially when and where conformity means rejecting her instead of accepting her attraction. <BR/><BR/>For example, suppose that you and your brother are the only Asians in your otherwise-all-white small-town high school and that you have severe acne. Even something as basic as wanting to date a classmate who wants to date you is wanting a nonconformist if conformity at your high school includes wanting to date only white girls and/or having a fetish for Asian girls with clear skin...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-68571921738136601942008-04-24T22:40:00.000-07:002008-04-24T22:40:00.000-07:00Not what I meant. Most of the women I know who wer...<I>Not what I meant. Most of the women I know who were attracted to "bad boys" were talking about non-conformist, rebelious, I-don't-give-a-fuck types, not guys who hurt women.</I><BR/><BR/>OK, then we may not disagree on this one after all. I've heard guys go on about the "bad boy" thing who sounded as if they really <I>did</I> think women went out of their way to pick men who hurt them; that always struck me as jealousy and a distorted lens. But rebellious, I-don't-give-a-fuck non-conformists, yeah, lot's of women go for those (especially when young). <BR/><BR/>To a degree, I've even found some of those things attractive - not so much the I-don't-give-a-fuck part, but a degree of creative non-conformity. I find attractive men who dream big and are willing to take risks for their dreams. But, you know, more political activists or people interested in creative professions than motorcycle riders. Though motorcycles are OK if they come in conjunction with brains and a good education.<BR/><BR/><I>That, in essence, on the average, a group of men who treat women badly will, over time, be out-bred and out-competed by men who allow women to rise to (or closer to) their levels of natural capacity. You can't say its good for women to be equal, unless its bad for them not to be, can you?</I><BR/><BR/>And I think it <I>is</I> something that hurts a society's competitiveness, over the long run. I see it as possibly an artifact of the move from hunter-gatherer societies to agriculture. Hunter-gatherer societies, OK, have their variations like any type of society, but tend, as I understand it, to be relatively egalitarian in their sex roles. Not, I mean, the utopian feminist paradise, but not Afghanistan. Because, in small groups, where people are all familiar with each other, strength and brute force have their value, but so do other things.<BR/><BR/>But you move to agriculture, and more concentrated populations, beyond the size of groups that we're evolved to be able to know and trust, and you get new organizational problems. And, to deal with that, more hierarchy, and more organization for defense against the Other. And one of those defense against the Other things is greater focus on protecting Our Women against the Other, hence more rigid sex roles, and more control of women by men, who <I>can</I> control women because of the strength differential.<BR/><BR/>But over time, those cultures that can develop more democratic and egalitarian ways of managing that larger social organization, and especially ones that aren't wasting large amounts of their resources by suppressing women, are more competitive. Especially as technology develops such that brains can more readily compete against brute force, and as more effective birth control is available.<BR/><BR/><I>Whatever it is that makes men more violent, I fail to see how this operates much to the real benefit of men</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe to the real benefit of a small minority of men at the top, but, no, you're right here, it's largely to both sexes' disadvantage.Lynn Gazis-Saxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16775215056055972392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-37930144526989045782008-04-24T18:22:00.000-07:002008-04-24T18:22:00.000-07:00Also, who has which advantage in the Get Satisfyin...Also, who has which advantage in the Get Satisfying Sex game can be even harder to tell when they're all also playing the Get Enough Food game and some of them can't play those 2 games separately.<BR/><BR/>For example, suppose a village <BR/>tells its girls "don't have sex outside marriage!" and "you don't need a job, your husband will provide!" but teaches its boys some ways to earn a living even when single. What if a woman stuck there has only 2 men available, is turned on by the struggling bachelor her own age and turned off by the rich widower her father's age, accepts the the rich widower's proposal since her family says they can't support her forever, and then lies back and thinks of her stomach while her vagina hurts? Winner, loser, both, or neither?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-86833947322021770192008-04-24T17:12:00.000-07:002008-04-24T17:12:00.000-07:00"There's an article in this month's Scientific Ame..."There's an article in this month's Scientific American Mind..."<BR/><BR/>Speaking of interesting articles, here's one from Sunday's Boston Globe:<BR/><BR/>http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/04/20/shackled_to_the_past/<BR/><BR/>"Shackled to the past : New research from a Harvard scholar suggests that Africa's economic woes may have their roots in the slave trade" by By Francie Latour, <BR/>April 20, 2008:<BR/><BR/>"...Sensing it is one thing. Proving it is another. Could there be a direct, quantifiable link between the African countries most ravaged by slavery and those that are the most underdeveloped today? And if there were such a link, could it be measured?...<BR/><BR/>"...Where some find Nunn's proposition outlandish, others are bound to see it as courageous. He has attempted to put plot points and statistical weight behind slavery's global aftermath...."<BR/><BR/>"each side (men and women) seem to believe that the other side has the advantage."<BR/><BR/>Personally, I believe that it's way more complex and not always limited to 2 sides.<BR/><BR/>2 different kinds of men competing for 1 kind of woman: 3 sides.<BR/><BR/>A single man and single woman considering each other while their families play matchmaker with ulterior motives: at least 4 sides (unless they're cousins and his family is already her family).<BR/><BR/>Gay, lesbian, and intersex people: not the same sides as the straight men and straight women.<BR/><BR/>Polyamorous people who feel you'd be cheating on the other 2 people in your committed threesome if you have a one night stand with a 4th person: break out the calculators! ;)<BR/><BR/>"To me, suggesting that men are running the game, and have been for twenty thousand years or so, simply isn't possible unless women are inferior mentally and emotionally."<BR/><BR/>...and isn't possible unless they're all playing the same game in the first place.<BR/><BR/>"Yeah, violence.<BR/><BR/>"Women aren't inferior mentally and emotionally; they're inferior physically...<BR/><BR/>"...In societies where men solve problems the same way women do, women have a good shot at equality. In societies where slapping the bitch is still an acceptable answer, not so much."<BR/><BR/>See, that's at least 2 different games right there.<BR/><BR/>"I think "who has it worse, women or blacks" is a non issue. We don't need another pissing contest in the US...we need to center on making it better for all."<BR/><BR/>Yeah!<BR/><BR/>"As for violence, Dan--no doubt that women suffer more violence at the hands of men than vice versa. But the great equalizer is killing your husband in his sleep."<BR/><BR/>Only if you have an opportunity to feed yourself afterwards and/or you're suicidal. It's not as much of an equalizer if there's no way for a local widow to earn a living, his heir will inherit custody of you, etc.<BR/><BR/>"Outnumbering us, outliving us, and being responsible for training male children during the most imprintable period of their lives..."<BR/><BR/>BTW, how imprintable is that? I've heard of black women being responsible for training white boys during some very early years and still seeing those boys grow up to take racist cues from their slaveholding white fathers.<BR/><BR/>"The human race bifurcated into a yin-yang configuration where men not only are trained, bred, and selected to do the dangerous and violent tasks but are blamed for the aggression that makes it possible. That's exactly like blaming women for being 'weak and passive' if they want peace and security in their homes."<BR/><BR/>Great points.<BR/><BR/>Also, isn't it not only unfair but kinda pointless to try to breed for a big increase in sexual dimorphism when fathers can pass on genes to daughters and mothers can pass on genes to sons? I mean, the X chromosome that makes me female definitely came from my father's mother, but it's a new roll of the dice for each chromosome pair when gametes are formed, and so for all I know my other 45 chromosomes all came from my grandfathers.<BR/><BR/>"Most of the women I know who were attracted to 'bad boys' were talking about non-conformist, rebelious, I-don't-give-a-fuck types, not guys who hurt women."<BR/><BR/>Good point. It also shows how arbitrary that "bad boy" label can be. How many non-conformist, rebelious, I-don't-give-a-fuck types get labelled "nice guys" instead of "bad boys" just because their not-so-average behavior includes high grades and 20-sided dice instead of low grades and motorcycles?<BR/><BR/>"A question: if violent behavior comes largely from men, but is also primarily focused upon other men (all crime or war statistics would bear this out), then do men really benefit from it?"<BR/><BR/>That depends on *which* men, of course.<BR/><BR/>"I fail utterly to see how this 'benefits' men, unless you take the position that money and power is better than intimacy and love."<BR/><BR/>And/or unless one takes the posituion that having food and shelter is better than not having food and shelter, and considers what it takes to afford those...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-1147696940912006042008-04-24T14:31:00.000-07:002008-04-24T14:31:00.000-07:00never mind - it's blogger truncating the link. I ...never mind - it's blogger truncating the link. I give up (smile).Brian Dunbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12952894032434503816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-29501864033632939562008-04-24T14:30:00.000-07:002008-04-24T14:30:00.000-07:00That link doesn't work.My bad. Here is the real-d...<I>That link doesn't work.</I><BR/><BR/>My bad. Here is the real-deal link from Parameters<BR/><BR/>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/98spring/peters.htm<BR/><BR/><I>After your comments about how many black people white people have in their address books, I checked.</I><BR/><BR/>Everyone in my cell-phone address book is white - but that's just immediate family plus some work numbers. That's really all I use my cell phone for.<BR/><BR/>My IM list is more instructive - I've people there from all over the world - most of them I've never met f2f, but I have worked with. While it's pretty certain that Anuja from Mumbai is Indian ... what about Nic from the UK? Vig from Romania? Spider_b from who-knows-whereI have no idea.<BR/><BR/>But .. Nic is a kick-ass programmer so it doesn't matter.Brian Dunbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12952894032434503816noreply@blogger.com