tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post1886535057531551565..comments2024-03-25T17:38:55.490-07:00Comments on Dar Kush: Can "Tarzan" be saved?Steven Barneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13630529492355131777noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-51364576475829550412013-05-21T06:07:45.781-07:002013-05-21T06:07:45.781-07:00Good way of telling, and pleasant post to get fact...Good way of telling, and pleasant post to get facts concerning my presentation topic,<br />which i am going to present in school.<br /><br />My site :: <a href="http://www.overnightreputation.com/individuals/" rel="nofollow">individual reputation management</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-39983000922168547412013-04-17T20:31:31.308-07:002013-04-17T20:31:31.308-07:00What's Going down i am new to this, I stumbled...What's Going down i am new to this, I stumbled upon this I'νe found It absоlutely helpful and it hаs helped mе out lοadѕ.<br /><br />I'm hoping to contribute & assist other users like its aided me. 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Keep up the goоd effort.<br /><br /><br />Also ѵiѕіt my webpagе :: <a href="http://www.iwapu.com/index.php?do=/profile-842/info/" rel="nofollow">http://www.iwapu.com/</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-3794802815340048612008-09-09T11:45:00.000-07:002008-09-09T11:45:00.000-07:00...Topologist asks: "cite a post..."Vuln......Topologist asks: "cite a post..."<BR/><BR/>Vulnerability. The real issue is the black hero is not getting vulnerable with anyone. <BR/><BR/>If intra-racial love scenes are not worth screening, the hero is not getting intimate with anyone, how can you get too excited about the number of inter-racials as proof of...acceptance? What?<BR/><BR/>Let's start with fuller dimensions of character development: arrogance, willfulness, pride and indifference to intimacy are rapper attributes, which is where the inter-racial images are selling anyway. <BR/><BR/>Steven says it well on ""More on Hancock: "Now, most people will probably stop with the interracial aspect, without grasping that black men don't have sex with ANYONE. It isn't just white women. And sisters, I feel you on the discomfort you felt when she appeared...<BR/><BR/>... the genetic threat of watching a black man and woman indulge in reproductive behavior."<BR/>"<BR/><BR/>Maybe there are not a lot of black chick flicks, down home story telling, it's all action. White rapper Marky Mark showed one view of this in the action movie "the shooter". Action movie, no sex, just a hint of intimacy. Luckily there is not a "BlokeBlack Mountain". You were talking about Sam Jackson & Shaft. SuperFly even had a cool black chick, even tho it was threadbare. I saw it just recently...<BR/><BR/>If they won't let black men "get with any women" on the movie screen why not start with something more simple and real than inter-racial coupling? Maybe Will Smith's wife doesn't want him out there with any other girl...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-10177329768892695002008-09-09T09:21:00.000-07:002008-09-09T09:21:00.000-07:00Mark Jones - "Tarzan Alive" wasn't+ the only Farme...Mark Jones - "Tarzan Alive" wasn't+ the only Farmer Tarzan novel, or short story. He also did "The Jungle Rot Kid". Farmer was very conscious of the race issue sin Tarzan in his novels. I don;t think he dealt with them in a perfect way, but he's certainly aware they exist.<BR/><BR/>Now, for a Tarzan movie, having him be effectively race blind because of his being raised by apes, then have to come to terms with Victorian Racism, his heritage that tied him into in it, and actually learn what it means to see race? That would be fascinating.<BR/><BR/>I don't think it'd be an uplifting movie, but it'd be an informative one :-)Josh Jasperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08441897278413737658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-91451812474836210332008-09-09T09:04:00.000-07:002008-09-09T09:04:00.000-07:00paul, I was just commenting quickly to say where I...paul, I was just commenting quickly to say where I thought Steve's suggestion of the black man/Latina woman pairing came from (that is, I don't think he <EM>prefers</EM> inter-racial pairings to intra-racial ones, but rather that he prefers to see black men having sex at all, and thinks that's the pairing where they'd most likely be allowed to do so, in the movies). I think I'm probably better off passing on your other questions and letting Steve speak for himself.<BR/><BR/>Myself, I think he's right that white men have more sex in the movies than black men, and you're right that inter-racial pairings are more likely to be given tragic endings than intra-racial ones. And, I'm more interested in seeing sex with love and intimacy (whatever the combination of races) than without.Lynn Gazis-Saxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16775215056055972392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-45913969064486448462008-09-09T08:54:00.000-07:002008-09-09T08:54:00.000-07:00Paul, can you cite a post where Steven seems to ha...Paul, can you cite a post where Steven seems to have a black man-white woman obsession? I cannot find one at all. It is not in keeping with his thesis here, as far as I can tell.Pagan Topologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01611788563582362688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-42470120340885783782008-09-09T08:30:00.000-07:002008-09-09T08:30:00.000-07:00Lynn, I was hoping to hear from Steven, but I stil...Lynn, I was hoping to hear from Steven, but I still don't understand. "I am horrendously sick of watching Great White Father stories. " We all know the cliches of Hollywood studio execs> They pander anything, and it is usually debilitating. <BR/><BR/>There is resistance to seeing black men have sex in the movies, but we can see it day and night on MTV, where it sells pretty good.<BR/><BR/>Black on Black is often not one dimensional sex, but Love and Intimacy. I mean JayZ just gave Beyonce $5M ring?<BR/><BR/>And you say white men "get to have sex", in the movies, with women of all races. Here is the real issue. <BR/>But, it is mostly with white women and there is some chance for intimacy. <BR/><BR/>When the screenplay is inter-racial, will love develop? Some small chance it is tragic love... Inter-racial tension stimulates. It pulls up images of violence. Is it good for healing, love, family or intimacy?<BR/><BR/>Sorry, looks like the black man- white woman obsession is a kind of chest thumping. Usually not so good for the white woman either. <BR/><BR/>How else are we going to heal the history?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-4104889988098513472008-09-09T07:56:00.000-07:002008-09-09T07:56:00.000-07:00Some years ago, there was a display in a bank, in ...Some years ago, there was a display in a bank, in Tarzana, SoCal. Burroughs' original handwritten Tarzan ms. It was under glass in the lobby, as I recall.<BR/><BR/>"Tarzan" wasn't Lord Greystoke's name originally. You could see ERB had written something else, then scratched it out and replaced it.<BR/><BR/>Uhhh-ahhh-uhhh-ahh-uuhhhhhh!Steve Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12079658447270792228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-21349188067678894002008-09-09T03:35:00.000-07:002008-09-09T03:35:00.000-07:00Oh yeah, Tarzan can be saved. If you kill him in t...Oh yeah, Tarzan can be saved. If you kill him in the end...<BR/><BR/>you can't tell me that any person, black or white, will survive in the jungle. <BR/><BR/>then again, you do have indigenous people who do it very day . <BR/><BR/>but if was to remake tarzan, he would get merc'ed in the end. and the natives would say "I told you not to mess with those lions!"Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205384167481897308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-40550839545590319982008-09-08T22:47:00.000-07:002008-09-08T22:47:00.000-07:00If Tarzan is black, and born from a semi-local or ...If Tarzan is black, and born from a semi-local or local tribe, then you've got Mowgli, only transplanted to Africa. <BR/><BR/>Kipling rocks. :)<BR/><BR/>I do rather like the idea of Tarzan being raised by apes but being drawn to the local tribe--they look like him, but aren't. They can even be rejecting of him if the writer wants to open that messy can of worms--with the payoff that Tarzan has to earn their trust and respect to hang with them. And when white man shows up, Tarzan has to choose. And I say, he chooses the people he knows and has learned to care about and who care about him, than people who happen to share the same skin color.<BR/><BR/>Or something along those lines.<BR/><BR/>And then Tarzan is kidnapped by the evil white people who try to make him wear clothes and stuff and act like a lord so they can get at his trust money and he can't even speak their language and he manages to escape to his beloved Africa via the aid of Jane, but he tells her to stay in Europe where she belongs.<BR/><BR/>But I love you, Tarzan!<BR/>Um, I don't think you'd last five minutes in the African jungle, but get pumped, learn how to use a knife, and I'll see you in the sequel!<BR/><BR/>(Kami runs away giggling)Kamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00531243633193697440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-33554752243078649702008-09-08T20:29:00.000-07:002008-09-08T20:29:00.000-07:00Pagan Topologist--that book was written. By Philip...Pagan Topologist--that book <EM>was</EM> written. By Philip Jose Farmer. His "Tarzan Alive!" is a faux biography of the "real" Lord Greystoke, with all the less than savory details (that ERB was either unwilling to include or ignorant of) added back in.<BR/><BR/>As for the Matrix--if the first movie was written by someone else, that would explain a lot. I thought they really missed the boat at the end of the second film when Neo was able to neutralize the robots in the real world. That should have been the clue that the "real world" was nothing of the kind, but just another layer of the Matrix designed to contain rebels. After all, everyone else could do "impossible" things in the Matrix, Neo was just better at it--but seeing through the illusion they all accepted with absolute certainty as reality? Now THAT's a mission for The One.<BR/><BR/>Tarzan? Either play it absolutely straight, as a faithful (film) version of a pulp story every bit as fantastical and absurd as ERB's John Carter of Mars stories--or give it up entirely.<BR/><BR/>Or...make Tarzan black, why not? You can still do the "blood will tell" schtick by making him the child of African bluebloods, somehow deprived of his parentage/culture. Maybe in an accident, like Tarzan. Maybe deliberately, like Moses set adrift on the river. Either way, he miraculously avoids becoming crocodile fodder and is rescued and raised by apes....Mark Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01994430001543710190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-61001503193750920912008-09-08T18:57:00.000-07:002008-09-08T18:57:00.000-07:00Whether or not a Tarzan remake hits the big or sma...Whether or not a Tarzan remake hits the big or small screen, the theme of the white hero lording it over nonwhite masses continues to be revisited in movies. I just recently saw that theme played out in 10,000 BC. It's interesting how the light skinned warrior from the light skinned tribe was chosen to lead black tribes.<BR/><BR/>I suppose if the reverse were adopted and a black hero was chosen to lead an alliance of white tribes, 10,000 BC would not have attracted the audience the filmmakers were targeting. <BR/><BR/>I recently wrote a short story about a man, who happens to be black, who is stranded on a planet inhabited by primitive humans stuck in a late medieval stage of development. Anyway, our hero has organized the humans, introduced them to sophisticated forms of warfare, designed advanced weapons of war and led the humans in a campaign to liberate them from the clutches of a vile and murderous enemy.<BR/><BR/>It so happens that the humans he leads are white. I plan on revisiting that story in a novel length treatment. But I'm sure you would agree that what I described would make for great cinema even if I do say so myself. LOL. Of course, even if Will or Denzel were to play the lead, will filmakers go for the premise of a black guy from an advanced technological civilization presiding over a bunch of primitive whites in a leadership capacity? In this day and age when Barack Obama is a serious contender for president?Ronald T. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09481894178654125267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-74395600206226526252008-09-08T17:39:00.000-07:002008-09-08T17:39:00.000-07:00As I understand it, Steve's argument is that a) th...As I understand it, Steve's argument is that a) there's resistance to seeing black men have sex in the movies, period, b) that's true both for black man/white woman pairings and for black man/black woman pairings, c) there's somewhat less resistance to black man/Latina pairings than <EM>either</EM> black man/white woman or black man/black woman, and d) white men get to have sex, in the movies, with women of all races.<BR/><BR/>What the reason would be for c), I can't imagine (intuitively, it seems as if at least black man/black woman pairings ought to be just as accepted as black man/Latina pairings), but Steve says it's what he's observed.Lynn Gazis-Saxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16775215056055972392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-10595304843273267652008-09-08T16:33:00.000-07:002008-09-08T16:33:00.000-07:00Steven, just one quick thing: why do you always g...Steven, just one quick thing: why do you always get so bent out of shape when there is no black man - white woman sex but the whole idea of white man - black woman never surfaces? On your review of Hancock you thought it would be great if not a white, South African woman, at least a Latina...<BR/><BR/>What is the matter with black-on-black or white-on-white sex/love scenes? Would Obama be even better if he had a white wife?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-79459533103278651442008-09-08T14:35:00.000-07:002008-09-08T14:35:00.000-07:00The way I would like to see Tarzan redone, either ...The way I would like to see Tarzan redone, either as films or books, is as a faux documentary. The point would be that ERB had lied because he could not bear to tell the real story, and telling how the story "really" happened, with as much change as necessary to erase the racism. There can be allusions to the original books which will appeal to those of us who have read them, but make it clear that the real Tarzan was very different, his history was different, and the black people in the narrative were just as smart as he was, or moreso. (He could have been raised by them, and ERB lied about it for example, and claimed he was raised by apes.)Pagan Topologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01611788563582362688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-80215627832625694332008-09-08T14:04:00.000-07:002008-09-08T14:04:00.000-07:00Honestly, I think that Tarzan needs to go the way ...Honestly, I think that Tarzan needs to go the way of vaudeville. Vaudeville, which displayed blatant racism and racial stereotypes/caricatures died out in the early 20th Century and would never be tolerated today. Interestingly, white men in black face portrayed all of the parts and when black men entered vaudeville they had somewhat fleeting success. <BR/><BR/>As noted before, to rewrite Tarzan would be another story. Not Tarzan. So write another story but don't call it Tarzan. <BR/><BR/>JenniAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-19173369860060613102008-09-08T13:16:00.000-07:002008-09-08T13:16:00.000-07:00althea- i remember when the story first circulate...althea- i remember when the story first circulated years ago, somewhere on a site they had actually listed her phone number. I called and she and I spoke at length, very very convincing. The story she submitted was called "The Eye" I believe...and she even had documentation/copyright evidence. There was a rumor circulating for awhile that she won the case when in fact she'd just been granted (not sure what the word is) to go to trial. She lost that case...I hadn't thought about her in a few years, though we exchanged a few emails. Last week I received a phone message from someone who I'd introd to her, who'd kept in much better contact than I, and he said "She won...". Haven't spoken with him yet to get details... SO i'm not sure.<BR/><BR/>In terms of LOTR, just the whole people of color as the "bad guy"...LOVED the movies of course, but still disconcerting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-35358051784325549152008-09-08T13:00:00.000-07:002008-09-08T13:00:00.000-07:00I always liked Mowgli better than Tarzan, FWIW. N...I always liked Mowgli better than Tarzan, FWIW. Not sure how to remake Tarzan actually played straight.<BR/><BR/>George of the Jungle, OTOH, I loved as a child.Lynn Gazis-Saxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16775215056055972392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-40766433943004521602008-09-08T09:49:00.000-07:002008-09-08T09:49:00.000-07:00Steve, I'd have to quibble with you on a small poi...Steve, <BR/><BR/>I'd have to quibble with you on a small point. Blood is in fact everything. Where hard core racists fall down is that from an analytical point of view, Australian Aborigines and Lapplanders are practically identical, blood-wise. Hell, don't human beings share something like 98-99% of their genetic material with chimpanzees?<BR/><BR/>I tend to agree with Neal Stephenson on that score. In "The Diamond Age" he says something to the effect that while there are almost no differences genetically between ethnic groups, culturally they're usually about as far apart as it's possible for them to be.BSPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240014296528596326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-11511993583679396372008-09-08T09:46:00.000-07:002008-09-08T09:46:00.000-07:00Nancy touched on the thought that I have been havi...Nancy touched on the thought that I have been having of a way to do Tarzan without the overt racism. Throughout the books ERB talks about the nobility of the savage/wild, with the corollary that civilization is degrading/corrupting. The core story will always be about Tarzan, but you could play the scenes of the Black village for a condemnation of civilization by showing the Blacks society decimated by alcohol or slave raids. <BR/><BR/>Alternatively, Tarzan could become sick early after joining the apes and Kala could take him to the Black village where he is healed. After Tarzan has matured, he could discover the Black village and start his reign of terror, until he is stopped by Kala telling him that he owes his life to the village.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9339191.post-52798343696256177722008-09-08T09:43:00.000-07:002008-09-08T09:43:00.000-07:00Althea:I definitely agree that there are too many ...Althea:<BR/>I definitely agree that there are too many Magical Negro/Spiritual Guide roles in American movies. Lots of films with Morgan Freeman or Scatman Crothers come to mind (and the second Pirates of the Carribbean movie-which I hated).<BR/><BR/>But I do think that if there were a big budget remake of Tarzan we might see such a role added. It might be subtle and updated. It would allow the creators to vaccinate themselves from any charges of bad intent.<BR/><BR/>I don't know how successful they were but a few years back there were sequels to Gone With the Wind in book and film versions. Mel Gibson's movie "The Patriot" made an action hero out of a slaveowner by ignoring the issue and rewriting history. So that's why I think it's possible to have a Tarzan film, but I think it's quite undesirable.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Salina:<BR/>I see where you are coming from with regards to the films "King Kong", "300", "10,000 B.C.". I don't quite think the LOTR movies fall into that category although I can see how some could take it that way. (Orcs with dreadlocks) Could you elaborate?<BR/><BR/>Although Tolkien was primarily drawing on the mythologies and stories of Northern and Western Europe to create his stories, I never got the feeling he did so in an exclusive mannner, if that makes any sense.Shady_Gradyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00996625985002373392noreply@blogger.com